"I spoke to Roberto Martinez in late January and we had a conversation"
We had a fantastic event in May 2014 when we invited Joe Royle and Neville Southall over for very memorable evening! You will find Ger McNally's interview with Joe Royle below. In Part 2 Ger McNally interviews the one and only Neville Southall! In Part 3 you will find a review of the event from new Irish Toffees member Colm Murray, as well fantastic photos from Bernard Geraghty. (Ronan)
Radio City DJ Simon Ross put the questions to both Joe and Big Nev.
The Irish Toffees hosted an evening in Dublin with two Everton Legends as the guests of honour, Neville Southall & Joe Royle. Before the event took place I had the opportunity to interview them both. First up in the review is my interview with Joe Royle. I knew all about his achievements as a player but I wanted to talk to him about a very special time, if you are in the mid 30’s age bracket like me, in Everton’s history.
The early 90’s were a bad time for the club and it says much about the period that the first thing I can remember really celebrating was the miracle last day relegation escape about Wimbledon in 1994. Despite noises from the club that we would never go as close to relegation again, the following season under Mike Walker started even worse.
A paltry total of 8 points from the opening 14 games left relegation feeling like an inevitability even in early November but the sacking of Walker and subsequent appointment of Royle led to one of the remarkable seasons in the club’s history.
Of course the appointment of such a playing legend was bound to lift the fans but how did Royle manage to lift the morale of a squad who had become so accustomed to losing?
“I think at that stage we had eight points from 14 games. In a 42 game season as it was then we were on schedule for 24 points which would certainly have taken us down. I didn’t realise how bad it was because when I got there I started to examine the coming fixtures and the fixtures that had already been lost. We were in dire straits, we had one win from 14 games. I didn’t want to be the manager that took Everton down,” said Royle
“My first game in charge was a reserve game at Anfield. There were three players playing in that game that I told immediately after that they were going to be in the first team. They were Joe Parkinson, John Ebbrell and Andy Hinchcliffe. I couldn’t understand why there were playing in the reserves, I knew they were strong players, I knew what they would give us and I knew we had to play a certain way, shall we say, an aggressive style, an all action style, not totally dissimilar to how Chelsea play now, if we were to get away from the bottom,” he said.
It led to the teambeing nicknamed the “dogs of war” but Royle was only ever interested in finding the best way of playing for the group of players he had available to him.
“So much is talked about how football should be played but there is no written way or desired way that you have to play football. It doesn’t say it has to be in the air or on the floor, it’s whatever gets you results. Ok, if you can play a pleasing style with pleasing players that’s great but the first duty of a coach or manager is to get the best out of the players he has. You have to devise a system to suit those players and that’s what we did.”
“Myself and Willie (Donachie) had taken home an armful of video tapes as they were then and we’d looked at all the games they had lost and we both came up with the same conclusion – soft touch. So we decided that if nothing else we weren’t going to be a soft touch. We had ball winning midfielders, Barry Horne - who was terrific, Joe Parkinson – was going to be terrific and but for injury would have played for England, and of course we had John Ebbrell. Then we had exciting players like Anders Limpar, who was out of favour with the fans but was a wonderful talent. We had the wonderful left foot of Andy Hinchcliffe and then we had experienced players like big Neville Southall who still knew what to do. Dave Watson was another, I played with Dave at Norwich. Players like that all around the club that I knew we could depend upon. That’s all it was, it was simple to me. It was fresh and new at the time but that was how we got the best out of the players.”
Some players who became sterling operators under Royle remain firm favourites at the club to this day, none more so than Duncan Ferguson. “People say that Duncan didn’t fulfil his potential but you have to take Duncan for what he was and not what he might have been. There are very few players that you could say did fulfil their potential, it was said about me that I never fulfilled my potential. Having the ability to fulfil your potential is a talent in itself, some people can’t do it but you’ve got to say that what Duncan did and with a goal record of something like one in three for Everton was pretty good. He gave the Everton fans at the time something more than all the talent in the world could do. He gave them a reason to believe. He a talisman, the fans loved him. He scored his first goal for the club in a derby game and the legend was born,” said Royle.
A lot of Ferguson’s strikes owed to the accuracy of Andy Hinchcliffe’s prodigious left foot. The left back was somebody that Royle turned from an Everton reserve to England international in under two years.
The early 90’s were a bad time for the club and it says much about the period that the first thing I can remember really celebrating was the miracle last day relegation escape about Wimbledon in 1994. Despite noises from the club that we would never go as close to relegation again, the following season under Mike Walker started even worse.
A paltry total of 8 points from the opening 14 games left relegation feeling like an inevitability even in early November but the sacking of Walker and subsequent appointment of Royle led to one of the remarkable seasons in the club’s history.
Of course the appointment of such a playing legend was bound to lift the fans but how did Royle manage to lift the morale of a squad who had become so accustomed to losing?
“I think at that stage we had eight points from 14 games. In a 42 game season as it was then we were on schedule for 24 points which would certainly have taken us down. I didn’t realise how bad it was because when I got there I started to examine the coming fixtures and the fixtures that had already been lost. We were in dire straits, we had one win from 14 games. I didn’t want to be the manager that took Everton down,” said Royle
“My first game in charge was a reserve game at Anfield. There were three players playing in that game that I told immediately after that they were going to be in the first team. They were Joe Parkinson, John Ebbrell and Andy Hinchcliffe. I couldn’t understand why there were playing in the reserves, I knew they were strong players, I knew what they would give us and I knew we had to play a certain way, shall we say, an aggressive style, an all action style, not totally dissimilar to how Chelsea play now, if we were to get away from the bottom,” he said.
It led to the teambeing nicknamed the “dogs of war” but Royle was only ever interested in finding the best way of playing for the group of players he had available to him.
“So much is talked about how football should be played but there is no written way or desired way that you have to play football. It doesn’t say it has to be in the air or on the floor, it’s whatever gets you results. Ok, if you can play a pleasing style with pleasing players that’s great but the first duty of a coach or manager is to get the best out of the players he has. You have to devise a system to suit those players and that’s what we did.”
“Myself and Willie (Donachie) had taken home an armful of video tapes as they were then and we’d looked at all the games they had lost and we both came up with the same conclusion – soft touch. So we decided that if nothing else we weren’t going to be a soft touch. We had ball winning midfielders, Barry Horne - who was terrific, Joe Parkinson – was going to be terrific and but for injury would have played for England, and of course we had John Ebbrell. Then we had exciting players like Anders Limpar, who was out of favour with the fans but was a wonderful talent. We had the wonderful left foot of Andy Hinchcliffe and then we had experienced players like big Neville Southall who still knew what to do. Dave Watson was another, I played with Dave at Norwich. Players like that all around the club that I knew we could depend upon. That’s all it was, it was simple to me. It was fresh and new at the time but that was how we got the best out of the players.”
Some players who became sterling operators under Royle remain firm favourites at the club to this day, none more so than Duncan Ferguson. “People say that Duncan didn’t fulfil his potential but you have to take Duncan for what he was and not what he might have been. There are very few players that you could say did fulfil their potential, it was said about me that I never fulfilled my potential. Having the ability to fulfil your potential is a talent in itself, some people can’t do it but you’ve got to say that what Duncan did and with a goal record of something like one in three for Everton was pretty good. He gave the Everton fans at the time something more than all the talent in the world could do. He gave them a reason to believe. He a talisman, the fans loved him. He scored his first goal for the club in a derby game and the legend was born,” said Royle.
A lot of Ferguson’s strikes owed to the accuracy of Andy Hinchcliffe’s prodigious left foot. The left back was somebody that Royle turned from an Everton reserve to England international in under two years.
Joe Royle enters the room carrying the FA Cup he won 19 years previously.
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Joe stayed into the early hours signing autographs and making sure every fan got to meet him personally.
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Joe spoke about his meeting with Roberto Martinez
“Andy Hinchcliffe went from zero to hero in the space of 12 months . He played in that reserve game at Anfield and I said to him after the game, “Why aren’t you playing for England?”. He was at a low ebb at the time because he couldn’t get into the Everton side and he told me, “I can’t play for England if I can’t get into the first team.” I told him the Everton side of things was sorted and asked him again “Why aren’t you playing for England?”. He rose and got better and better and had a wonderful, wonderful left foot. People talk about Baines’ delivery, well Andy Hinchcliffe was pretty special as well,” said Royle.
Back to that special season, I would have thought that the confidence gained from a cup run ending at Wembley would have given the squad confidence in their relegation battle but the manager felt different.
“I think the FA Cup run was a hindrance,” he said bluntly. “I was worried all the way along that we would get an injury or a suspension because I didn’t want to be the manager that took Everton down, but we were so far behind and had so many points to make up. Quite honestly, it was only after we beat Spurs in the semi final that we could afford to put the cup to one side and say, “Hey, lets make sure we stay up.”
“We did that with two or three games to go at Ipswich when Big Neville was outstanding and we had a very scratchy, grey, ordinary 1-0 win which meant Everton Football Club could not be relegated and that’s when the FA Cup got very serious.”
“Number one on my managerial CV for me is being manager of the side that went from being the worst team in the league to probably the seventh best team in just two thirds of a season. That’s what we did, we had eight points after a third of the season and 50 points by the end. I’m very proud of that. The FA Cup was just the icing on the cake, that was more for the fans. The fans couldn’t believe it and I’ve got to say, it was a great night as well.”
I can remember literally chewing my finger nails to the bone during the second half as the likes of Neville Southall, David Unsworth and Joe Parkinson heroically threw their bodies on the line to repel the stream of Manchester Utd attacks but on the sideline, the manager was more relaxed.
“Sometimes you’ve got a feeling that destiny takes a hand, it was meant to be. I felt that the fans had so much crap for a while, I don’t mean playing crap but struggles and strife, it had seemed a long time since Howard’s great team of the mid 80’s.That one was for the fans.”
“And we did it the hard way by the way. We beat five Premier League side in the six games to win it and the only time we were in serious trouble was against Bristol City who weren’t Premier League. We beat Manchester Utd in the final but also beat Tottenham in the semi, we beat Newcastle, we Norwich, we beat Derby, they were all Premier League teams. It wasn’t an easy run. There are teams who have won the cup without playing any Premier League teams but had to beat five to win it.
A smile comes across Royle’s face as he started a sentence that needs no ending. “I was very proud of winning the cup but staying up....”
The next season saw Everton finish a very creditable sixth and they were in that position at Christmas of the 96-97 season before things started to unravel for Royle’s Everton, mainly due to a whole host of serious injuries.
“Andy Hinchcliffe, John Ebbrell’s ankle, Dave Watson, Joe Parkinson had an injury that was going to finish his career, even Tony Grant who was showing so much promise at the time. Andrei Kanchelskis was moved to say that Tony was the best midfielder that he had ever played with, that’s really something when you think of the players he played with. Granty got a bad injury after a tackle with Paul Bracewell against Sunderland over the Christmas. We were riddled with injuries at a time when we were being talked about as quiet outsiders for the Premier League at that time. We’d finished sixth in my first full season and then were sixth again before Christmas but injuries crippled us.”
The end of his reign in charge certainly never diminished the achievements of his first season and he rightfully is remembered as one of the club’s best to this day.
Royle has fond memories of taking the club to this country. “Arguably my first game for the first team was in Ireland, my debut as a 16 year old flew over my head but 18 months later as an 18 year old, Everton brought me to Ireland on a pre-season tour. We played Shamrock Rovers and I scored a couple and I think that was the first time that people started talking about Joe Royle as maybe being a number nine for Everton. So I have fond memories of being over here, staying in the Gresham, for a little scouser, well not so little, with all these players who I had stood outside the training ground and asked for autographs not long previously. I’ve got fond memories of Ireland and I brought Everton back over here. I knew that our ties had gone away a little bit from Ireland so I wanted to bring us back here and we did come over.”
And there is now the chance that he could come back to the club with Roberto Martinez looking to tap into his vast knowledge.
“I will tell you as much as I know,” said Royle. “I spoke to Roberto Martinez in late January and we had a conversation about a position that he wants to bring into the club. He wants an ex manager who can deal with players and transfers to be aware, not to work with, the under 21’s have two great coaches in Stubbsy and big Unsworth. Big David, bless him, he was a great member of our ’95 team. Because there is no reserve football anymore, the young players wander about in the wilderness a bit once they get too old for the under 18’s. If they are not good enough to go straight into the first team squad they really need to be out on loan. Roberto wants somebody to oversee the loaning or the non loaning in some cases and to liase with Roberto himself, the two coaches, the chief scout about the players that can go on for Everton and the players that we have to find new homes for. We both spoke with great enthusiasm about the position and then I hadn’t heard anymore about it until it cropped up in the papers a few weeks ago. So, you now know every bit as much as I know.”
“Roberto is a lovely man, he’s a charmer, I can see why all the ladies like him. He was the same at Wigan, I texted him after the cup final last year, that was a terrific achievement, to motivate a team so close to relegation to go and beat a team like Manchester City. If he wants me back at Everton.... we never mentioned money and we probably won’t have to.”
(It is great news to hear Joe Royle has indeed re-joined Everton Football Club today, we are sure it will be fantastic move for all involved). Joe was interviewed by Journalist Ger McNally. Many thanks to Ger for sharing this with us.
In Part 3 you will find a review of the event below from new Irish Toffees member Colm Murray, as well fantastic photos from Bernard Geraghty. In Part 2 Ger McNally interviews the one and only Neville Southall! Many thanks to all!(Ronan)
Back to that special season, I would have thought that the confidence gained from a cup run ending at Wembley would have given the squad confidence in their relegation battle but the manager felt different.
“I think the FA Cup run was a hindrance,” he said bluntly. “I was worried all the way along that we would get an injury or a suspension because I didn’t want to be the manager that took Everton down, but we were so far behind and had so many points to make up. Quite honestly, it was only after we beat Spurs in the semi final that we could afford to put the cup to one side and say, “Hey, lets make sure we stay up.”
“We did that with two or three games to go at Ipswich when Big Neville was outstanding and we had a very scratchy, grey, ordinary 1-0 win which meant Everton Football Club could not be relegated and that’s when the FA Cup got very serious.”
“Number one on my managerial CV for me is being manager of the side that went from being the worst team in the league to probably the seventh best team in just two thirds of a season. That’s what we did, we had eight points after a third of the season and 50 points by the end. I’m very proud of that. The FA Cup was just the icing on the cake, that was more for the fans. The fans couldn’t believe it and I’ve got to say, it was a great night as well.”
I can remember literally chewing my finger nails to the bone during the second half as the likes of Neville Southall, David Unsworth and Joe Parkinson heroically threw their bodies on the line to repel the stream of Manchester Utd attacks but on the sideline, the manager was more relaxed.
“Sometimes you’ve got a feeling that destiny takes a hand, it was meant to be. I felt that the fans had so much crap for a while, I don’t mean playing crap but struggles and strife, it had seemed a long time since Howard’s great team of the mid 80’s.That one was for the fans.”
“And we did it the hard way by the way. We beat five Premier League side in the six games to win it and the only time we were in serious trouble was against Bristol City who weren’t Premier League. We beat Manchester Utd in the final but also beat Tottenham in the semi, we beat Newcastle, we Norwich, we beat Derby, they were all Premier League teams. It wasn’t an easy run. There are teams who have won the cup without playing any Premier League teams but had to beat five to win it.
A smile comes across Royle’s face as he started a sentence that needs no ending. “I was very proud of winning the cup but staying up....”
The next season saw Everton finish a very creditable sixth and they were in that position at Christmas of the 96-97 season before things started to unravel for Royle’s Everton, mainly due to a whole host of serious injuries.
“Andy Hinchcliffe, John Ebbrell’s ankle, Dave Watson, Joe Parkinson had an injury that was going to finish his career, even Tony Grant who was showing so much promise at the time. Andrei Kanchelskis was moved to say that Tony was the best midfielder that he had ever played with, that’s really something when you think of the players he played with. Granty got a bad injury after a tackle with Paul Bracewell against Sunderland over the Christmas. We were riddled with injuries at a time when we were being talked about as quiet outsiders for the Premier League at that time. We’d finished sixth in my first full season and then were sixth again before Christmas but injuries crippled us.”
The end of his reign in charge certainly never diminished the achievements of his first season and he rightfully is remembered as one of the club’s best to this day.
Royle has fond memories of taking the club to this country. “Arguably my first game for the first team was in Ireland, my debut as a 16 year old flew over my head but 18 months later as an 18 year old, Everton brought me to Ireland on a pre-season tour. We played Shamrock Rovers and I scored a couple and I think that was the first time that people started talking about Joe Royle as maybe being a number nine for Everton. So I have fond memories of being over here, staying in the Gresham, for a little scouser, well not so little, with all these players who I had stood outside the training ground and asked for autographs not long previously. I’ve got fond memories of Ireland and I brought Everton back over here. I knew that our ties had gone away a little bit from Ireland so I wanted to bring us back here and we did come over.”
And there is now the chance that he could come back to the club with Roberto Martinez looking to tap into his vast knowledge.
“I will tell you as much as I know,” said Royle. “I spoke to Roberto Martinez in late January and we had a conversation about a position that he wants to bring into the club. He wants an ex manager who can deal with players and transfers to be aware, not to work with, the under 21’s have two great coaches in Stubbsy and big Unsworth. Big David, bless him, he was a great member of our ’95 team. Because there is no reserve football anymore, the young players wander about in the wilderness a bit once they get too old for the under 18’s. If they are not good enough to go straight into the first team squad they really need to be out on loan. Roberto wants somebody to oversee the loaning or the non loaning in some cases and to liase with Roberto himself, the two coaches, the chief scout about the players that can go on for Everton and the players that we have to find new homes for. We both spoke with great enthusiasm about the position and then I hadn’t heard anymore about it until it cropped up in the papers a few weeks ago. So, you now know every bit as much as I know.”
“Roberto is a lovely man, he’s a charmer, I can see why all the ladies like him. He was the same at Wigan, I texted him after the cup final last year, that was a terrific achievement, to motivate a team so close to relegation to go and beat a team like Manchester City. If he wants me back at Everton.... we never mentioned money and we probably won’t have to.”
(It is great news to hear Joe Royle has indeed re-joined Everton Football Club today, we are sure it will be fantastic move for all involved). Joe was interviewed by Journalist Ger McNally. Many thanks to Ger for sharing this with us.
In Part 3 you will find a review of the event below from new Irish Toffees member Colm Murray, as well fantastic photos from Bernard Geraghty. In Part 2 Ger McNally interviews the one and only Neville Southall! Many thanks to all!(Ronan)
Some of the exclusive merchandise on show at the event.
